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Wednesday, March 17, 2010

Over at Vox's a commrnter hight "Damagehold" opens a can:


Ok, I have to go and open up the can of worms.
I get from Bane and Nate and various sources that demons are here, they're queer, and for the most part we can easily send them packing. Like Jesus said, some can only be driven out through prayer and fasting, fine. But certainly they can't bother us when they're just floating around in the ether. It's game over. Nate's hinted at "what happened to Baal and his buddies" and I can guess, but I'd love to hear that thought expanded.
On to the can of worms:
What about miracles? Why so few and far between? Are we supposed to be doing them?
What about the Holy Spirit? Speaking in tongues, baptism, etc?
I'm not asking about end times or any of that flamebait, I just want to know if there's some massive portion of ministry we're supposed to be doing RIGHT NOW that's been almost totally neglected in my churchian experience.
It occurs to me that I should look up the name of Vox's former pastor and that minister who co-authored the christian video game with him. Someone I can recommend is Dennis Peacocke, not as an author really but for his recommended book list.
As personal background, I'm mid 20s and in the past spent a fair amount of time studying the Bible, mostly through E-Sword and the Dennis Peacocke Foundation series, and whatever books were around the house. Right now my syntopical reading cycle is focused on secular matters, but I'd like to build a good list of resources because I'm sure I'll come back to this topic. I did already see Vox's recommended reading path culminating in GK Chesterton's Orthodoxy, although last time I tried it I was too much of a sci fi snob to endure more of Lewis' Perelandria. Perhaps having read A Wrinkle In Time since then I'll be more forgiving.

I think the major flaw in my churchian education has been studying only the Bible itself and filtering that study through a modern churchian lense. Christianity is a pre-Biblical religion... duh. I guess I assumed that since Jesus Christ was the truth, therefore my religious education in my upbringing had to be also substantially true. WRONG.

A #10 can, at least, shading toward a 55 gallon drum. I replied in a place-holding manner:

One point: Modern Charismania tends to put a "three miracles before breakfast" gloss on NT Christian life. Outside of spiritual gifts in the assembly, there appears to be a minimum of the miraculous showcased in the first century church (the NT covering a period of some 40 years. Certainly, it is not likely an exhaustive catalog of charismata and the miraculous, but still, it isn't all raising the dead by elevenses, either.

I learned a wonderful word this weekend: "presentism". It is a History term, referring to the error of viewing the past through the lens of today. It reminds me of the fuss made by Darwin otaku who reject the Bible out of hand because it classifies "bats" with "birds".
Holy St. Linnaeus on a stick, the Bible does not use a system of taxonomy developed some 1700 years after its writing was complete! Into the dustbin it goes! Unless, of course, it is using a different taxonomy, like lumping non-insectoid things having wings together. My understanding then is to allow the Scripture to instruct me from its time, rather than instructing it pridefully from mine.

Jesus said at the end of Mark's Gospel:

15And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."(NASV)


This opens several cans, as well. His commission did not stop at "preach". Jesus then proceeded to meddle with Evangelical theology by saying "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.". Jesus (apparently) held baptism (Greek for "immersion") to be of some importance, as He linked them (He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved). "He who has disbelieved shall be condemned"does not negate the previous sentence, since it is faith in Christ that validates baptism. What, you gonna get baptised without believing first? So baptism is important, and part of Christ's salvific instructions. Not mine.

Once in the church (Acts 2, f'rinstance) Other Things happen.

17"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

18they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."


Casting out demons, and other manifestations and protections of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12) would be in evidence, a sort of spiritual toolbox with which to do the work of the church.

Contextually, that all these things are together in one small context leads me to believe that they are to be together historically.


(More to be added)

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